Public opposes firearms in Capitol, officials consider permitless carry
CHEYENNE — Constitutional carry is now included in a proposed set of rules that would allow firearms in an underground corridor of the Wyoming Capitol, formally known as the Capitol Extension.
However, an online public survey shows overwhelming opposition to the rule change.
Firearms are currently prohibited in the Capitol, but Gov. Mark Gordon promised in a veto message to consider lifting gun-free zones in state-owned buildings operated through the executive branch.
This promise came after he vetoed House Bill 125, passed through the Legislature earlier this year, that would have lifted all gun-free zones across the state, including hospitals and schools. Gordon criticized the bill as an overstep of the legislative branch.
In May, the governor directed the State Construction Department (SCD) to draft a set of rules that would allow concealed carry in the Capitol Extension. The proposed rules were presented during a special State Building Commission meeting on Aug. 12, which allowed public comment. However, relatively few people showed up to testify, taking up only an hour of the scheduled two-hour event.
The SCD also conducted a survey on its website, from Aug. 12 through Oct. 2, which received more than 130 public comments. Nearly 90% of those who commented online were against the rules change, citing safety concerns. Several people, some of whom were gun owners, said they would feel unsafe in the building, considering many heated discussions are prone to take place over controversial pieces of legislation.
“Throughout decades of doing business in the Capitol building and working with the Wyoming Legislature, I always felt safe because guns were not allowed and armed security was in the building,” read one comment. “If guns are allowed, I will hesitate to come into a building that I no longer consider to be safe.”
One person who commented said they were a former Capitol police officer who served under former Wyoming Govs. Ed Herschler, Mike Sullivan and Jim Geringer. The person said they’re licensed to concealed carry, but “very seldom carry my weapon in public places.”
“Private citizens should not be permitted to enter ANY state building armed,” their comment read. “This includes permit to carry.”
One person, who said they’re a state employee, said they are “uncomfortable and fearful of coworkers, public visitors and anyone other than security personnel carrying firearms at my place of work.”
Several others who opposed the rules argued it's unwise to allow firearms in a place where heated debate often takes place. Some said it would intimidate people from testifying during legislative meetings. One person said allowing firearms in the building “could inhibit the democratic process through potential threat.”
“Knowing that members of the public may be (and likely will be) carrying concealed weapons while I, with my back turned to the public so that I may see and be seen by legislators, will have a very real chilling effect on my freedom of speech,” read another comment.
New changes to draft rules
Members of the State Building Commission (SBC) – made up of the state’s top five elected officials – discussed the rules during their Wednesday meeting in the Capitol Auditorium. State Auditor Kristi Racines, who chairs the rules working group, explained some of the main changes in the new draft.
Aside from including constitutional carry, language that excluded lawmakers and state employees under the definition of "public" was removed in the new set of proposed rules.
“We removed the exclusions regarding who may exercise this right in the extension, and we tried to do that in a way to avoid having to open up this set of rules again after the legislative session,” Racines said. “Can we guarantee that we'll avoid that? No, but that was our intent, to be as inclusive as possible.”
Gordon, who chairs the SBC, and Secretary of State Chuck Gray, however, engaged in a debate for a good part of the discussion. Gray brought an amendment to the rules that would have included the Herschler Building, which houses several state agency offices, including the Secretary of State’s office, and is just north of the Capitol.
“There are people in the Herschler Building that are concerned for their safety because there have been threats,” Gray said.
State employees were evacuated from the Herschler Building last month when a letter containing white powder was received in the Secretary of State’s Office. The FBI later determined it to be harmless. A month before that, Gray said he received a threatening voicemail from an unidentified caller, for which he blamed “the lying left-wing media.”
“If the intent is we're going to do the entire Capitol Complex, we need to follow through on that,” Gray said. “It just feels like we're playing whack-a-mole here. … We never get it done, and it's just kind of a game of dithering delay.”
State Superintendent of Public Instruction Megan Degenfelder pushed back on this comment. She said the working group understood “there are nuances to work through,” given the overlapping jurisdiction between the legislative and executive branches in the Capitol.
“I don't think we dilly-dally whatsoever,” Degenfelder said. “Auditor Racines and I have worked really hard on how this process will play out. And so ... I might push back a little bit on where we're at and the progress that we're making.”
The SBC can only enforce the rules in areas operated through the executive branch. However, the Capitol is shared by both the legislative and executive branches, and jurisdiction depends on the area of the building and time of year.
Racines and Degenfelder are now working to overturn Gov. Geringer's 2001 executive order on workplace violence, either through a repeal or legislative override, according to a Wednesday news release. The policy currently prohibits all executive branch employees and officials from carrying deadly weapons around or in any state buildings.
“This is a common-sense move that will align state policy with the rights Wyoming citizens enjoy elsewhere,” Racines said in the release. "We look forward to continued work on this important issue with our colleagues on the SBC and in the Legislature."
However, Gray responded it’s taken the commission six months to get to this point, and it still failed to address the entirety of the vetoed bill. Gordon leaned back and swiveled his chair so he could directly face the secretary of state.
“The main reason that I vetoed that bill has nothing to do with the fantasy that you're advancing,” Gordon said. “It has everything to do with the fact that it would have surrendered all executive branch and judicial branch control to the Legislature. I believe there is a separation of powers.”
Gray argued that the role of the Legislature is to instruct “the executive branch to execute the laws that they create.” Gordon responded that his ability to veto those laws, as he did with HB 125, is protected in the state’s constitution.
“I vetoed the bill, and so we do not have that bill here,” Gordon said. “Those arguments that you advance are ones that are cogent and thoughtful, and I think they probably can come up in this next (legislative) session, and we may be faced with the same thing.”
Next steps
Gray’s amendment to include the Herschler Building failed for lack of a motion, and the Building Commission unanimously voted to adopt the rules packet. Next steps include uploading the rules to the Secretary of State’s website for a public comment period for a minimum of 45 calendar days. There's been no confirmation yet on when the public comment period will begin.
These comments will be considered before the commission adopts the final draft. Since the Capitol is also operated through the legislative branch, the rules working group recommended seeking concurrent approval from the Management Council, which is made up of legislative leadership.
SBC Secretary Suzanne Norton said this is to avoid public confusion over which spaces in the Capitol allow concealed carry.
“Otherwise, it becomes a little bit impossible to manage for both,” Norton said.
This story was published on October 10, 2024.